In my last Hall of Fame (HOF) post I discussed the one-and-doners and those who are on the fence for the Hall of Very Good (@HOVG). This post will discuss the five primary new candidates, Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina and Frank Thomas. My next post will deal with the holdover candidates.
This chart is similar to the one shown in the first post--it's from Baseball-Reference (B-R) and shows only value numbers--you can access the full data showing career stats here:
Batting Stats | |||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Rk | YoB | % of Ballots | HOFm | HOFs | Yrs | WAR | WAR7 | JAWS | Jpos | ||||||||||||
18 | Greg Maddux | 1st | 254 | 70 | 23 | 106.83 | 56.29 | 81.56 | 61.4 | ||||||||||||
19 | Frank Thomas | 1st | 194 | 60 | 19 | 73.64 | 45.32 | 59.48 | 55.7 | ||||||||||||
20 | Mike Mussina | 1st | 121 | 54 | 18 | 83.01 | 44.48 | 63.75 | 61.4 | ||||||||||||
21 | Tom Glavine | 1st | 176 | 52 | 22 | 81.43 | 44.31 | 62.87 | 61.4 | ||||||||||||
22 | Jeff Kent | 1st | 122 | 51 | 17 | 55.19 | 35.60 | 45.40 | 57.0 |
I explained the columns in my first post and suffice it to say that the WAR and WAR7 stats are the ones that interest me the most.
TOM GLAVINE
It will be impossible to separate Glavine from Greg Maddux and John Smoltz, and rightly so--they're one of the best, probably THE best trio of pitchers ever. This table shows pitchers with the best ERA+ since 1980:
This table ranks players by OPS+, which normalizes offensive production to both era and ballpark, and Kent fits in very favorably with other second basemen of the past 60+ years. He's easily the best power-hitting second basemen in this time frame, quite possibly of all-time and fielded his position adequately--FanGraphs has him as a negative value in defense but not terribly so.
Kent's has two problems, NEITHER of which are tied to his on-field performance:
1. There's another contemporary second basemen in Craig Biggio who really should have been selected last year. Since he garnered over 68% of the vote in his first year, he's almost certain to be elected this year, and irrational or not, there are voters who will NOT put two different players at second base on their ballots.
2. This is a CROWDED ballot once the holdovers are taken into account, and for inexplicable reasons HOF voters are averse to putting more than 2-3 names on a ballot, even though the rules allow for as many as 10. Somehow the "sanctity" of the HOF ballot is stuck in the era when there were only 16 Major League teams vs. the 30 of today. This will continue to be a problem until voters come to grips with the notion that twice as many players as in the past AND a worldwide talent pool results in...TWICE AS MANY GOOD PLAYERS. It's not going to get any easier going forward--these are players making their HOF voting debuts in the years going forward:
2015--Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz
2016--Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey Jr.
2017--Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 3rd ballot (2016), will receive 45% of 2014 vote
GREG MADDUX
I will cover him as briefly as anyone:
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 1st ballot, 95% of vote (and those 5% will have NO EXCUSE)
MIKE MUSSINA
This is going to become a major issue going forward unless baseball strategy is radically changed--the 300-game winner is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. It's been said before--as long ago as 1963 Early Wynn was convinced HE was going to be the last pitcher who won 300 games. He was off by 10 with Randy Johnson being the latest to do so in 2009, but that door is now firmly shut. These are the current pitchers with the most wins:
You are seeing this table correctly--Andy Pettitte probably shouldn't be on the list since he finished after this year, but these are the current pitchers with 200 wins. Even expanding it down to 150 wins to see who the up-and-comers are doesn't expand the list much. Winning 300 games is hard enough--15 wins over 20 seasons, and in an era in which starters are lucky to start as many 35 games a year, it's a numbers battle that's impossible to win.
I mention this because Mussina won 270 games, which will somehow be construed as not meeting an important benchmark. He also had an excellent win percentage and ERA+ (better than Glavine's) and is easily part of the discussion of one of the best pitchers of his generation. He was CONSISTENT--he only won 20 games once (in his final year, oddly enough, and itself another dinosaur stat), but he maintained that consistency over a long period of time. The WAR7 metric was made for players like Mussina to show that they didn't just shoot up and then fall off but were able to have sustained success--his WAR7 of 44.5 works out to around 6.5 a season, which is a very solid All-Star type of season.
And he'll have the same issues as Jeff Kent--the numbers battle of how many players are elected and not meeting some arbitrary and outdated standard. Mussina very comfortably meets both the HOF Monitor and HOF Standards (see my post at FanGraphs that shows this) so his enshrinement won't somehow diminish it. He didn't win 300 wins, but still ranks 33rd all-time with a whole host of HOF pitchers behind him in that outdated stat, folks like Jim Palmer, Bob Feller, Carl Hubbell, Bob Gibson and many, many more.
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 4th ballot (2017), will receive 40% of 2014 vote
FRANK THOMAS
Frank Thomas will constitute a very interesting discussion, one that will be continued as Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz reach their respective times for HOF consideration--what SHOULD voters do with a designated hitter, and how is designated hitter defined anyway?
This table shows the players with the greatest percent of plate appearances as a DH:
A HUGE hat tip to the Baseball Play Index (@BRefPlayIndex) who told me how to improve on an earlier table I used. Frank Thomas, while thought of primarily for his offensive output and certainly no Keith Hernandez in the field, played a good number of games in the field. In other words, any attempt to pigeonhole him as a one-dimensional player isn't entirely accurate. As always, I appreciate when my ideas are improved upon by others, and I thank the BRefPlayIndex for bringing this to my attention.
Notwithstanding what I just wrote, there are no real surprises. David Ortiz playing in the field only occurs in the World Series, Edgar Martinez actually played more in the field (over 25% of the time) than he's given credit for, and it begs the question--what is the TRUE all-around ball player? The common answer is someone who plays the field, even though modern metrics show that for almost any position (click any of the links at the right that connect with FanGraphs all-time WAR values) a player's offense is worth around 4-5 times their defense. It's pretty easy to understand--a player CAN score four runs at once if the bases are full and they hit a home run, but it's hard for a player to boot a ball, error or otherwise that results in four runs scoring--it happens, but take this point to its furthest logical conclusion. The vast majority of runs are due to offense--in 2013, 92.6% of runs scored were earned. Another way to state it is that 7.4% were unearned, or the result of errors. Add any factor to account for lack of range, improper positioning or other defensive deficiencies may exist and it's still hard to conclude that anything more than 15% of runs are the result of bad defense.
If this is the case, why penalize players like Thomas or Martinez who were exceptional in one aspect of the game? No left fielder has ever been enshrined for their defensive capabilities, rightly so since they averaged around 2 fielding chances a game in 2013. This FanGraphs table shows the best-fielding left fielders in baseball history (they rank players in a position if they EVER played it)--you have to go VERY far down the list to find Ted Williams or others. But somehow the notion of the "all-around player" has entered the picture, even though in organized baseball worldwide, the National League (I believe) is the only holdout to the designated hitter. I'm not interested in the discussion on whether the DH should exist or not--it's been in effect for 40 years now and it's simply there.
Frank Thomas had a very interesting career. He was among the most dominant hitters EVER through his first 11 seasons--this chart shows where he ranks, 39th on the list. Pay particular attention to the players above AND below him--in many ways these are the players widely regarded as the best hitters in baseball history. In a perverse way, this caused Thomas problems as injuries slowed him down from 2001-2005, causing him to enter the extremely dangerous "what might have been" conversation, usually reserved for players destined for the Hall of Very Good. Thomas rebounded very nicely in 2006 and 2007, garnering MVP votes in both years.
Thomas hit two important milestones, the 500+ HR club and a lifetime .300 batting average. I'll discuss the 500 club sometime soon and while the .300 average is nice, it's nowhere near as important as the 156 OPS+--take a look at THIS list:
Like any other stat, OPS+ alone doesn't tell the entire story of a player's career, but think about what it shows--he had an OPS significantly higher than average in a time of INCREASED OFFENSE. He wasn't just the beneficiary of newer, hitter-friendly parks, he took great advantage of it, more so than just about any other contemporary hitter. That's what the HOF is supposed to recognize--not merely the amassing of career numbers, but a level of dominance, and Thomas did that. He hit 40 or more home runs five times AND maintained a decent average--if he had played more at first, would we really be viewing him in a different light?
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 2nd ballot (2015), will receive 55% of 2014 vote
My next post will discuss the holdover candidates and baseball's unfortunate PED Era of 1995-2007. I don't hold up the Hall of Fame as the ultimate arbiter of baseball excellence, but it is a marker. As advanced metrics creep further into career evaluations (thanks Jonny Gomes!) perhaps these discussions will be far more objective than in the past, but it's too soon to state that with certainty. The best we can do is move the conversation forward and review the players in the proper context, evaluating what they did well and giving their "deficiencies" the correct weight (if any).
TOM GLAVINE
It will be impossible to separate Glavine from Greg Maddux and John Smoltz, and rightly so--they're one of the best, probably THE best trio of pitchers ever. This table shows pitchers with the best ERA+ since 1980:
Rk | Player | IP | From | To | Age | G | GS | CG | SHO | W | L | BB | SO | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Pedro Martinez | 154 | 2827.1 | 1992 | 2009 | 20-37 | 476 | 409 | 46 | 17 | 219 | 100 | .687 | 760 | 3154 | 2.93 |
2 | Clayton Kershaw | 146 | 1180.0 | 2008 | 2013 | 20-25 | 184 | 182 | 11 | 7 | 77 | 46 | .626 | 393 | 1206 | 2.60 |
3 | Roger Clemens | 143 | 4916.2 | 1984 | 2007 | 21-44 | 709 | 707 | 118 | 46 | 354 | 184 | .658 | 1580 | 4672 | 3.12 |
4 | Brandon Webb | 142 | 1319.2 | 2003 | 2009 | 24-30 | 199 | 198 | 15 | 8 | 87 | 62 | .584 | 435 | 1065 | 3.27 |
5 | Johan Santana | 136 | 2025.2 | 2000 | 2012 | 21-33 | 360 | 284 | 15 | 10 | 139 | 78 | .641 | 567 | 1988 | 3.20 |
6 | Randy Johnson | 135 | 4135.1 | 1988 | 2009 | 24-45 | 618 | 603 | 100 | 37 | 303 | 166 | .646 | 1497 | 4875 | 3.29 |
7 | Greg Maddux | 132 | 5008.1 | 1986 | 2008 | 20-42 | 744 | 740 | 109 | 35 | 355 | 227 | .610 | 999 | 3371 | 3.16 |
8 | Roy Halladay | 131 | 2749.1 | 1998 | 2013 | 21-36 | 416 | 390 | 67 | 20 | 203 | 105 | .659 | 592 | 2117 | 3.38 |
9 | Adam Wainwright | 129 | 1314.2 | 2005 | 2013 | 23-31 | 248 | 185 | 16 | 6 | 99 | 57 | .635 | 336 | 1127 | 3.11 |
10 | Curt Schilling | 127 | 3261.0 | 1988 | 2007 | 21-40 | 569 | 436 | 83 | 20 | 216 | 146 | .597 | 711 | 3116 | 3.46 |
11 | Roy Oswalt | 127 | 2245.1 | 2001 | 2013 | 23-35 | 365 | 341 | 20 | 8 | 163 | 102 | .615 | 520 | 1852 | 3.36 |
12 | Justin Verlander | 127 | 1772.0 | 2005 | 2013 | 22-30 | 266 | 266 | 20 | 6 | 137 | 77 | .640 | 545 | 1671 | 3.41 |
13 | Jered Weaver | 127 | 1474.2 | 2006 | 2013 | 23-30 | 231 | 231 | 11 | 6 | 113 | 60 | .653 | 390 | 1236 | 3.24 |
14 | Felix Hernandez | 127 | 1824.2 | 2005 | 2013 | 19-27 | 269 | 269 | 23 | 9 | 110 | 86 | .561 | 526 | 1703 | 3.20 |
15 | Kevin Brown | 127 | 3256.1 | 1986 | 2005 | 21-40 | 486 | 476 | 72 | 17 | 211 | 144 | .594 | 901 | 2397 | 3.28 |
16 | John Tudor | 126 | 1769.0 | 1980 | 1990 | 26-36 | 275 | 257 | 49 | 16 | 116 | 70 | .624 | 466 | 977 | 3.07 |
17 | Bret Saberhagen | 126 | 2562.2 | 1984 | 2001 | 20-37 | 399 | 371 | 76 | 16 | 167 | 117 | .588 | 471 | 1715 | 3.34 |
18 | John Smoltz | 125 | 3473.0 | 1988 | 2009 | 21-42 | 723 | 481 | 53 | 16 | 213 | 155 | .579 | 1010 | 3084 | 3.33 |
19 | Tim Hudson | 124 | 2813.2 | 1999 | 2013 | 23-37 | 427 | 426 | 25 | 13 | 205 | 111 | .649 | 846 | 1896 | 3.44 |
20 | Dave Stieb | 123 | 2766.0 | 1980 | 1998 | 22-40 | 425 | 394 | 96 | 29 | 168 | 129 | .566 | 986 | 1617 | 3.40 |
21 | Cole Hamels | 123 | 1596.2 | 2006 | 2013 | 22-29 | 245 | 244 | 13 | 6 | 99 | 74 | .572 | 394 | 1509 | 3.38 |
22 | Mike Mussina | 123 | 3562.2 | 1991 | 2008 | 22-39 | 537 | 536 | 57 | 23 | 270 | 153 | .638 | 785 | 2813 | 3.68 |
23 | Jimmy Key | 122 | 2591.2 | 1984 | 1998 | 23-37 | 470 | 389 | 34 | 13 | 186 | 117 | .614 | 668 | 1538 | 3.51 |
24 | Jose Rijo | 121 | 1880.0 | 1984 | 2002 | 19-37 | 376 | 269 | 22 | 4 | 116 | 91 | .560 | 663 | 1606 | 3.24 |
25 | CC Sabathia | 121 | 2775.1 | 2001 | 2013 | 20-32 | 415 | 415 | 37 | 12 | 205 | 115 | .641 | 834 | 2389 | 3.60 |
26 | Kevin Appier | 121 | 2595.1 | 1989 | 2004 | 21-36 | 414 | 402 | 34 | 12 | 169 | 137 | .552 | 933 | 1994 | 3.74 |
27 | David Cone | 121 | 2898.2 | 1986 | 2003 | 23-40 | 450 | 419 | 56 | 22 | 194 | 126 | .606 | 1137 | 2668 | 3.46 |
28 | Carlos Zambrano | 120 | 1959.0 | 2001 | 2012 | 20-31 | 354 | 302 | 10 | 5 | 132 | 91 | .592 | 898 | 1637 | 3.66 |
29 | Matt Cain | 119 | 1721.0 | 2005 | 2013 | 20-28 | 266 | 265 | 15 | 6 | 93 | 88 | .514 | 579 | 1436 | 3.35 |
30 | Cliff Lee | 119 | 2075.1 | 2002 | 2013 | 23-34 | 315 | 311 | 28 | 12 | 139 | 86 | .618 | 452 | 1752 | 3.51 |
31 | Tom Glavine | 118 | 4413.1 | 1987 | 2008 | 21-42 | 682 | 682 | 56 | 25 | 305 | 203 | .600 | 1500 | 2607 | 3.54 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 10/31/2013.
The most difficult part in analyzing one part of a multi-facet game is isolating just the one part (pitching) and leaving out the excellent offense the Braves put behind these three pitchers, but Glavine managed to be very effective and rack up counting stats at the tail end of his career where some other pitchers (Carlos Zambrano, Jimmy Key, Jose Rijo) simply reached their ends and weren't able to stay in baseball. When the Braves allowed Glavine to leave after the 2002 season he was effectively finished, but there's no doubt he belongs in the HOF. As much as I may malign the win as an evaluative method for pitchers, it's impossible to overlook 305 of them--it's in our consciousness far too much, and I'll go further into this notion when I discuss Mike Mussina.
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 1st ballot (to the extent that matters), 85% of votes
JEFF KENT
I touched on it briefly in my first post, but players like Jeff Kent pose the biggest issues for HOF voters--when their offensive output is viewed, it is often compared to other players at different positions, and in Kent's case I wouldn't be surprised if his numbers are compared to Frank Thomas', Rafael Palmeiro's or other players on the ballot and that he'll have "only" hit 377 home runs, in an era of offensive production unrivaled since the 1930s to boot. That's unfair to Kent and compares him to the wrong people--he should be compared to other second basemen, and this table does so for players since 1950:
Generated 10/31/2013.
The most difficult part in analyzing one part of a multi-facet game is isolating just the one part (pitching) and leaving out the excellent offense the Braves put behind these three pitchers, but Glavine managed to be very effective and rack up counting stats at the tail end of his career where some other pitchers (Carlos Zambrano, Jimmy Key, Jose Rijo) simply reached their ends and weren't able to stay in baseball. When the Braves allowed Glavine to leave after the 2002 season he was effectively finished, but there's no doubt he belongs in the HOF. As much as I may malign the win as an evaluative method for pitchers, it's impossible to overlook 305 of them--it's in our consciousness far too much, and I'll go further into this notion when I discuss Mike Mussina.
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 1st ballot (to the extent that matters), 85% of votes
JEFF KENT
I touched on it briefly in my first post, but players like Jeff Kent pose the biggest issues for HOF voters--when their offensive output is viewed, it is often compared to other players at different positions, and in Kent's case I wouldn't be surprised if his numbers are compared to Frank Thomas', Rafael Palmeiro's or other players on the ballot and that he'll have "only" hit 377 home runs, in an era of offensive production unrivaled since the 1930s to boot. That's unfair to Kent and compares him to the wrong people--he should be compared to other second basemen, and this table does so for players since 1950:
Rk | Player | PA | From | To | Age | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Jackie Robinson | 134 | 3751 | 1950 | 1956 | 31-37 | 928 | 3120 | 592 | 970 | 166 | 29 | 97 | 477 | 523 | 191 | .311 | .416 | .476 | .892 |
2 | Joe Morgan | 132 | 11329 | 1963 | 1984 | 19-40 | 2649 | 9277 | 1650 | 2517 | 449 | 96 | 268 | 1133 | 1865 | 1015 | .271 | .392 | .427 | .819 |
3 | Chase Utley | 126 | 5671 | 2003 | 2013 | 24-34 | 1323 | 4910 | 852 | 1410 | 298 | 42 | 217 | 808 | 550 | 838 | .287 | .373 | .498 | .871 |
4 | Robinson Cano | 125 | 5791 | 2005 | 2013 | 22-30 | 1374 | 5336 | 799 | 1649 | 375 | 28 | 204 | 822 | 350 | 689 | .309 | .355 | .504 | .860 |
5 | Bobby Grich | 125 | 8220 | 1970 | 1986 | 21-37 | 2008 | 6890 | 1033 | 1833 | 320 | 47 | 224 | 864 | 1087 | 1278 | .266 | .371 | .424 | .794 |
6 | Jeff Kent | 123 | 9537 | 1992 | 2008 | 24-40 | 2298 | 8498 | 1320 | 2461 | 560 | 47 | 377 | 1518 | 801 | 1522 | .290 | .356 | .500 | .855 |
7 | Dustin Pedroia | 117 | 4548 | 2006 | 2013 | 22-29 | 1016 | 4029 | 651 | 1218 | 287 | 13 | 99 | 493 | 422 | 404 | .302 | .370 | .454 | .823 |
8 | Ben Zobrist | 117 | 3824 | 2006 | 2013 | 25-32 | 918 | 3280 | 482 | 861 | 195 | 29 | 104 | 459 | 467 | 617 | .263 | .354 | .435 | .789 |
9 | Lou Whitaker | 117 | 9967 | 1977 | 1995 | 20-38 | 2390 | 8570 | 1386 | 2369 | 420 | 65 | 244 | 1084 | 1197 | 1099 | .276 | .363 | .426 | .789 |
10 | Roberto Alomar | 116 | 10400 | 1988 | 2004 | 20-36 | 2379 | 9073 | 1508 | 2724 | 504 | 80 | 210 | 1134 | 1032 | 1140 | .300 | .371 | .443 | .814 |
11 | Ryne Sandberg | 114 | 9282 | 1981 | 1997 | 21-37 | 2164 | 8385 | 1318 | 2386 | 403 | 76 | 282 | 1061 | 761 | 1260 | .285 | .344 | .452 | .795 |
12 | Craig Biggio | 112 | 12504 | 1988 | 2007 | 22-41 | 2850 | 10876 | 1844 | 3060 | 668 | 55 | 291 | 1175 | 1160 | 1753 | .281 | .363 | .433 | .796 |
13 | Ian Kinsler | 111 | 4791 | 2006 | 2013 | 24-31 | 1066 | 4201 | 748 | 1145 | 249 | 23 | 156 | 539 | 462 | 568 | .273 | .349 | .454 | .804 |
14 | Dan Uggla | 110 | 5211 | 2006 | 2013 | 26-33 | 1227 | 4498 | 733 | 1106 | 231 | 16 | 231 | 680 | 596 | 1255 | .246 | .340 | .458 | .798 |
15 | Davey Johnson | 110 | 5465 | 1965 | 1978 | 22-35 | 1435 | 4797 | 564 | 1252 | 242 | 18 | 136 | 609 | 559 | 675 | .261 | .340 | .404 | .744 |
This table ranks players by OPS+, which normalizes offensive production to both era and ballpark, and Kent fits in very favorably with other second basemen of the past 60+ years. He's easily the best power-hitting second basemen in this time frame, quite possibly of all-time and fielded his position adequately--FanGraphs has him as a negative value in defense but not terribly so.
Kent's has two problems, NEITHER of which are tied to his on-field performance:
1. There's another contemporary second basemen in Craig Biggio who really should have been selected last year. Since he garnered over 68% of the vote in his first year, he's almost certain to be elected this year, and irrational or not, there are voters who will NOT put two different players at second base on their ballots.
2. This is a CROWDED ballot once the holdovers are taken into account, and for inexplicable reasons HOF voters are averse to putting more than 2-3 names on a ballot, even though the rules allow for as many as 10. Somehow the "sanctity" of the HOF ballot is stuck in the era when there were only 16 Major League teams vs. the 30 of today. This will continue to be a problem until voters come to grips with the notion that twice as many players as in the past AND a worldwide talent pool results in...TWICE AS MANY GOOD PLAYERS. It's not going to get any easier going forward--these are players making their HOF voting debuts in the years going forward:
2015--Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz
2016--Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey Jr.
2017--Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 3rd ballot (2016), will receive 45% of 2014 vote
GREG MADDUX
I will cover him as briefly as anyone:
He put up pitcher era numbers in a hitter's era
He was a 6'0", 170 lb. pitcher who had STUFF--not power, not one drop-dead pitch that batters never figured out. There's a function deep in the bowels of every player's B-R page that allows one to see how the player would have performed in different parks at different times. I was all set to show that for Maddux until it became close to irrelevant--no matter when or where, he was one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball history, and did it without being dominating. He's truly a generational pitcher.
ME--SERIOUSLY?!? PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 1st ballot, 95% of vote (and those 5% will have NO EXCUSE)
MIKE MUSSINA
This is going to become a major issue going forward unless baseball strategy is radically changed--the 300-game winner is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. It's been said before--as long ago as 1963 Early Wynn was convinced HE was going to be the last pitcher who won 300 games. He was off by 10 with Randy Johnson being the latest to do so in 2009, but that door is now firmly shut. These are the current pitchers with the most wins:
Rk | Player | W ▾ | From | To | G | GS | CG | SHO | L | IP | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
6 | Andy Pettitte | 256 | 1995 | 2013 | 531 | 521 | 26 | 4 | 153 | .626 | 3316.0 | 3.85 | 117 |
12 | Tim Hudson | 205 | 1999 | 2013 | 427 | 426 | 25 | 13 | 111 | .649 | 2813.2 | 3.44 | 124 |
13 | CC Sabathia | 205 | 2001 | 2013 | 415 | 415 | 37 | 12 | 115 | .641 | 2775.1 | 3.60 | 121 |
14 | Roy Halladay | 203 | 1998 | 2013 | 416 | 390 | 67 | 20 | 105 | .659 | 2749.1 | 3.38 | 131 |
You are seeing this table correctly--Andy Pettitte probably shouldn't be on the list since he finished after this year, but these are the current pitchers with 200 wins. Even expanding it down to 150 wins to see who the up-and-comers are doesn't expand the list much. Winning 300 games is hard enough--15 wins over 20 seasons, and in an era in which starters are lucky to start as many 35 games a year, it's a numbers battle that's impossible to win.
I mention this because Mussina won 270 games, which will somehow be construed as not meeting an important benchmark. He also had an excellent win percentage and ERA+ (better than Glavine's) and is easily part of the discussion of one of the best pitchers of his generation. He was CONSISTENT--he only won 20 games once (in his final year, oddly enough, and itself another dinosaur stat), but he maintained that consistency over a long period of time. The WAR7 metric was made for players like Mussina to show that they didn't just shoot up and then fall off but were able to have sustained success--his WAR7 of 44.5 works out to around 6.5 a season, which is a very solid All-Star type of season.
And he'll have the same issues as Jeff Kent--the numbers battle of how many players are elected and not meeting some arbitrary and outdated standard. Mussina very comfortably meets both the HOF Monitor and HOF Standards (see my post at FanGraphs that shows this) so his enshrinement won't somehow diminish it. He didn't win 300 wins, but still ranks 33rd all-time with a whole host of HOF pitchers behind him in that outdated stat, folks like Jim Palmer, Bob Feller, Carl Hubbell, Bob Gibson and many, many more.
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 4th ballot (2017), will receive 40% of 2014 vote
FRANK THOMAS
Frank Thomas will constitute a very interesting discussion, one that will be continued as Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz reach their respective times for HOF consideration--what SHOULD voters do with a designated hitter, and how is designated hitter defined anyway?
This table shows the players with the greatest percent of plate appearances as a DH:
Rk | Player | G | Gtot | % | PA | PAtot | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Travis Hafner | 1043 | 1183 | 88.2 | 4442 | 4782 | 3766 | 608 | 1036 | 236 | 13 | 200 | 689 | 561 | 903 | .275 | .378 | .504 | .882 |
2 | David Ortiz | 1622 | 1969 | 82.4 | 7098 | 8249 | 6064 | 1077 | 1758 | 447 | 17 | 381 | 1245 | 948 | 1256 | .290 | .385 | .558 | .943 |
3 | Hal McRae | 1426 | 2084 | 68.4 | 5917 | 8059 | 5291 | 740 | 1555 | 366 | 47 | 145 | 823 | 495 | 582 | .294 | .357 | .463 | .820 |
4 | Edgar Martinez | 1403 | 2055 | 68.3 | 6218 | 8674 | 5111 | 935 | 1607 | 370 | 6 | 243 | 1003 | 986 | 913 | .314 | .428 | .532 | .959 |
5 | Billy Butler | 626 | 1015 | 61.7 | 2660 | 4208 | 2387 | 301 | 705 | 134 | 3 | 77 | 364 | 239 | 400 | .295 | .361 | .451 | .812 |
6 | Harold Baines | 1643 | 2830 | 58.1 | 6618 | 11092 | 5806 | 825 | 1690 | 293 | 11 | 236 | 981 | 752 | 845 | .291 | .370 | .467 | .837 |
7 | Brad Fullmer | 465 | 807 | 57.6 | 1879 | 3065 | 1701 | 260 | 469 | 110 | 9 | 79 | 291 | 132 | 241 | .276 | .334 | .490 | .825 |
8 | Frank Thomas | 1310 | 2322 | 56.4 | 5698 | 10075 | 4678 | 788 | 1288 | 256 | 5 | 269 | 881 | 901 | 874 | .275 | .394 | .505 | .899 |
9 | Don Baylor | 1284 | 2292 | 56.0 | 5391 | 9401 | 4678 | 735 | 1210 | 214 | 9 | 219 | 803 | 476 | 651 | .259 | .344 | .449 | .792 |
10 | Cliff Johnson | 747 | 1369 | 54.6 | 2823 | 4603 | 2440 | 354 | 646 | 118 | 6 | 115 | 435 | 326 | 428 | .265 | .354 | .459 | .813 |
A HUGE hat tip to the Baseball Play Index (@BRefPlayIndex) who told me how to improve on an earlier table I used. Frank Thomas, while thought of primarily for his offensive output and certainly no Keith Hernandez in the field, played a good number of games in the field. In other words, any attempt to pigeonhole him as a one-dimensional player isn't entirely accurate. As always, I appreciate when my ideas are improved upon by others, and I thank the BRefPlayIndex for bringing this to my attention.
Notwithstanding what I just wrote, there are no real surprises. David Ortiz playing in the field only occurs in the World Series, Edgar Martinez actually played more in the field (over 25% of the time) than he's given credit for, and it begs the question--what is the TRUE all-around ball player? The common answer is someone who plays the field, even though modern metrics show that for almost any position (click any of the links at the right that connect with FanGraphs all-time WAR values) a player's offense is worth around 4-5 times their defense. It's pretty easy to understand--a player CAN score four runs at once if the bases are full and they hit a home run, but it's hard for a player to boot a ball, error or otherwise that results in four runs scoring--it happens, but take this point to its furthest logical conclusion. The vast majority of runs are due to offense--in 2013, 92.6% of runs scored were earned. Another way to state it is that 7.4% were unearned, or the result of errors. Add any factor to account for lack of range, improper positioning or other defensive deficiencies may exist and it's still hard to conclude that anything more than 15% of runs are the result of bad defense.
If this is the case, why penalize players like Thomas or Martinez who were exceptional in one aspect of the game? No left fielder has ever been enshrined for their defensive capabilities, rightly so since they averaged around 2 fielding chances a game in 2013. This FanGraphs table shows the best-fielding left fielders in baseball history (they rank players in a position if they EVER played it)--you have to go VERY far down the list to find Ted Williams or others. But somehow the notion of the "all-around player" has entered the picture, even though in organized baseball worldwide, the National League (I believe) is the only holdout to the designated hitter. I'm not interested in the discussion on whether the DH should exist or not--it's been in effect for 40 years now and it's simply there.
Frank Thomas had a very interesting career. He was among the most dominant hitters EVER through his first 11 seasons--this chart shows where he ranks, 39th on the list. Pay particular attention to the players above AND below him--in many ways these are the players widely regarded as the best hitters in baseball history. In a perverse way, this caused Thomas problems as injuries slowed him down from 2001-2005, causing him to enter the extremely dangerous "what might have been" conversation, usually reserved for players destined for the Hall of Very Good. Thomas rebounded very nicely in 2006 and 2007, garnering MVP votes in both years.
Thomas hit two important milestones, the 500+ HR club and a lifetime .300 batting average. I'll discuss the 500 club sometime soon and while the .300 average is nice, it's nowhere near as important as the 156 OPS+--take a look at THIS list:
Rk | Player | PA | From | To | Age | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Babe Ruth | 206 | 10622 | 1914 | 1935 | 19-40 | 2503 | 8399 | 2174 | 2873 | 506 | 136 | 714 | 2220 | 2062 | 1330 | .342 | .474 | .690 | 1.164 |
2 | Ted Williams | 190 | 9788 | 1939 | 1960 | 20-41 | 2292 | 7706 | 1798 | 2654 | 525 | 71 | 521 | 1839 | 2021 | 709 | .344 | .482 | .634 | 1.116 |
3 | Barry Bonds | 182 | 12606 | 1986 | 2007 | 21-42 | 2986 | 9847 | 2227 | 2935 | 601 | 77 | 762 | 1996 | 2558 | 1539 | .298 | .444 | .607 | 1.051 |
4 | Lou Gehrig | 179 | 9663 | 1923 | 1939 | 20-36 | 2164 | 8001 | 1888 | 2721 | 534 | 163 | 493 | 1992 | 1508 | 790 | .340 | .447 | .632 | 1.080 |
5 | Rogers Hornsby | 175 | 9480 | 1915 | 1937 | 19-41 | 2259 | 8173 | 1579 | 2930 | 541 | 169 | 301 | 1584 | 1038 | 679 | .358 | .434 | .577 | 1.010 |
6 | Mickey Mantle | 172 | 9907 | 1951 | 1968 | 19-36 | 2401 | 8102 | 1676 | 2415 | 344 | 72 | 536 | 1509 | 1733 | 1710 | .298 | .421 | .557 | .977 |
7 | Shoeless Joe Jackson | 170 | 5693 | 1908 | 1920 | 20-32 | 1332 | 4981 | 873 | 1772 | 307 | 168 | 54 | 785 | 519 | 234 | .356 | .423 | .517 | .940 |
8 | Ty Cobb | 168 | 13082 | 1905 | 1928 | 18-41 | 3034 | 11434 | 2246 | 4189 | 724 | 295 | 117 | 1938 | 1249 | 681 | .366 | .433 | .512 | .945 |
9 | Albert Pujols | 165 | 8546 | 2001 | 2013 | 21-33 | 1958 | 7310 | 1425 | 2347 | 524 | 15 | 492 | 1498 | 1067 | 835 | .321 | .410 | .599 | 1.008 |
10 | Mark McGwire | 163 | 7660 | 1986 | 2001 | 22-37 | 1874 | 6187 | 1167 | 1626 | 252 | 6 | 583 | 1414 | 1317 | 1596 | .263 | .394 | .588 | .982 |
11 | Jimmie Foxx | 163 | 9676 | 1925 | 1945 | 17-37 | 2317 | 8134 | 1751 | 2646 | 458 | 125 | 534 | 1922 | 1452 | 1311 | .325 | .428 | .609 | 1.038 |
12 | Stan Musial | 159 | 12717 | 1941 | 1963 | 20-42 | 3026 | 10972 | 1949 | 3630 | 725 | 177 | 475 | 1951 | 1599 | 696 | .331 | .417 | .559 | .976 |
13 | Johnny Mize | 158 | 7370 | 1936 | 1953 | 23-40 | 1883 | 6443 | 1118 | 2011 | 367 | 83 | 359 | 1337 | 856 | 524 | .312 | .397 | .562 | .959 |
14 | Hank Greenberg | 158 | 6097 | 1930 | 1947 | 19-36 | 1394 | 5193 | 1051 | 1628 | 379 | 71 | 331 | 1276 | 852 | 844 | .313 | .412 | .605 | 1.017 |
15 | Tris Speaker | 157 | 11992 | 1907 | 1928 | 19-40 | 2790 | 10195 | 1882 | 3514 | 792 | 222 | 117 | 1531 | 1381 | 394 | .345 | .428 | .500 | .928 |
16 | Frank Thomas | 156 | 10075 | 1990 | 2008 | 22-40 | 2322 | 8199 | 1494 | 2468 | 495 | 12 | 521 | 1704 | 1667 | 1397 | .301 | .419 | .555 | .974 |
17 | Dick Allen | 156 | 7315 | 1963 | 1977 | 21-35 | 1749 | 6332 | 1099 | 1848 | 320 | 79 | 351 | 1119 | 894 | 1556 | .292 | .378 | .534 | .912 |
18 | Willie Mays | 156 | 12496 | 1951 | 1973 | 20-42 | 2992 | 10881 | 2062 | 3283 | 523 | 140 | 660 | 1903 | 1464 | 1526 | .302 | .384 | .557 | .941 |
19 | Joey Votto | 155 | 3790 | 2007 | 2013 | 23-29 | 890 | 3180 | 529 | 999 | 227 | 12 | 157 | 530 | 564 | 700 | .314 | .419 | .541 | .960 |
20 | Hank Aaron | 155 | 13941 | 1954 | 1976 | 20-42 | 3298 | 12364 | 2174 | 3771 | 624 | 98 | 755 | 2297 | 1402 | 1383 | .305 | .374 | .555 | .928 |
21 | Joe DiMaggio | 155 | 7673 | 1936 | 1951 | 21-36 | 1736 | 6821 | 1390 | 2214 | 389 | 131 | 361 | 1537 | 790 | 369 | .325 | .398 | .579 | .977 |
22 | Mel Ott | 155 | 11348 | 1926 | 1947 | 17-38 | 2730 | 9456 | 1859 | 2876 | 488 | 72 | 511 | 1860 | 1708 | 896 | .304 | .414 | .533 | .947 |
23 | Miguel Cabrera | 154 | 7126 | 2003 | 2013 | 20-30 | 1660 | 6218 | 1064 | 1995 | 412 | 14 | 365 | 1260 | 799 | 1201 | .321 | .399 | .568 | .967 |
24 | Manny Ramirez | 154 | 9774 | 1993 | 2011 | 21-39 | 2302 | 8244 | 1544 | 2574 | 547 | 20 | 555 | 1831 | 1329 | 1813 | .312 | .411 | .585 | .996 |
25 | Frank Robinson | 154 | 11742 | 1956 | 1976 | 20-40 | 2808 | 10006 | 1829 | 2943 | 528 | 72 | 586 | 1812 | 1420 | 1532 | .294 | .389 | .537 | .926 |
ME--IN
PROGNOSIS--Hall of Fame, 2nd ballot (2015), will receive 55% of 2014 vote
My next post will discuss the holdover candidates and baseball's unfortunate PED Era of 1995-2007. I don't hold up the Hall of Fame as the ultimate arbiter of baseball excellence, but it is a marker. As advanced metrics creep further into career evaluations (thanks Jonny Gomes!) perhaps these discussions will be far more objective than in the past, but it's too soon to state that with certainty. The best we can do is move the conversation forward and review the players in the proper context, evaluating what they did well and giving their "deficiencies" the correct weight (if any).
Great article! Thanks for stating the case for Jeff Kent - a much greater talent, relatively speaking, than I had realized. I would hope that Frank Thomas would be a first year election, but how in the world does one justify Thomas in before Barry Bonds. Similarly, how can Glavine go in before Clemens. Only in the bizarre and fascinating world of the Baseball HOF do you deal with such craziness. Bring on the voting season. . . and the controversy!
ReplyDeleteI agree that Glavine will get in on the first ballot. Maddux obviously will, too. I think Frank Thomas has a good shot at it, as well. Although he was a DH, his best years were as a 1B. I think he'll probably get in this year, too.
ReplyDeleteI think you drastically overstate the case for both Kent and Mussina. Mussina certainly deserves it, and there's probably room for Kent, too. But there's just no way that they're getting in, at least not until whatever incarnation of the Vet's Committee gets a look at them. If Mussina hangs on this year (he should, but you never know with this crowded of a ballot - just look at what happened to Kenny Lofton!), no one will vote for him next year, when he'll be (at best) the 5th-best pitcher on the ballot. NO ONE votes for 5 pitchers. And while some may leave Clemens off in 2015, Mussina will fall off the ballot when compared to Johnson, Smoltz, and Martinez. It's unfortunate, but it's what's going to happen, I think.